Terry W. - I have to confess, that was extremely uncomfortable but, certainly interesting. I comfort myself with the idea that it's God's "universe," He certainly knows how to run it. And how He runs it is really none of my business. I knew a man named H. K. MacGreggor Wright, who must have died some time ago now, who told me, "God does what He jolly well likes." I never forgot those words. I find myself becoming irritated and uncomfortable when I hear over and over from people that we have free will. I've suspected for quite some time that we really don't. I have also felt uncomfortable with the idea that God loves everybody. And then there's the "limited atonement" question. And, frankly, I'm not sure what to make of it, and not certain I ever will. I've heard fine sounding arguments on both sides.
I'm not a theologian, but even if I were, why would I need an approach to explaining why God does things? Instead, I am curious, I ask God, and at least occasionally I receive answers, sometimes from scripture and sometimes in other ways.
That is sufficient, and I continue with what I understand I ought to be doing. Learning all of the "whys" is not part of that. What is so terrible about having to say "I don't know"? Does making something up make it better?
One thing those people that Jesus spoke to in parables appeared to lack was openness to discovery and change. As far as we know, only the disciples asked about the meanings and received answers.
The Bible tells us about God's character, so if you're going to ask questions about Him, that's where you look for answers. I'm just doing that.
I have already pointed out (in previous parts) the verses which clearly state that God hides wisdom and understanding from some people, and grants it to others. What you might see as "openness" is not a natural result of free will, but a fulfillment of prophecy where the people are not allowed to understand. The disciples themselves were clearly told things by Jesus before he died, yet God withheld understanding from them until after Christ's crucifixion, when they suddenly understood it.
Yes- we do learn about God’s character from reading the Bible- and it would be unfair if I didn’t tell you that I also at one point; came to some same conclusions; however, what if you are possibly missing a piece of the puzzle as to why you see an attitude of withholding or being misleading, giving collective punishment, making strange covenants or promises & having regret for creating man…after all, He created man in His image & what if that image has been tampered with since the beginning? That would give more insight into what feels (on the surface) like some being favored among others or knowing who is the elect. This is a mystery to man & possibly why you demonstrate a sense of injustice as God does not need to cherish man’s rationality- as His ways are higher. Sometimes we have to read between the lines to understand someone’s character. There is no room for discussion in a chess match- when mankind has been altered or tainted apart from the original copy we have to be more like Noah & seek out solutions- as it will be in these last days.
An interesting/provocative but sour interpretation. I do sense a punishing/hurt energy in your writing?
I notice this in intellectual types who are a bit world-weary, which is understandable.
Jesus parables are great catalysts and teaching aids…to say they are there to solely confuse is a very bitter perspective and I think does a disservice to the reality of them.
If I gave the impression that Christ's teachings were "solely" for confusion, that was accidental. I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious: that the parables have great meaning and beauty for those who "have ears to hear". Yet, I'm sure you see my actual point: how Jesus was being disproportionate when he says that the little people have will be taken away from them, in the context of understanding. I wasn't analyzing the parables themselves, but the methodology.
I don't feel hurt in the slightest, but deeply thankful. I do sympathize with the tragedy of the world, though. The cosmic script God has written has a lot of misery, pain, and tragedy before it finally resolves in triumph and glory for eternity. I think all believers eagerly anticipate what's coming next, and lament the way things have been. Even Jesus asked for his part in the story to be changed in the garden, but in the end he accepted it. We don't have to enjoy the harsh parts of God's judgments, but we're approaching the darkest time in world history and I want to emotionally prepare myself for just how intense God can be. We've had a few hundred years of relative peace and stability. I expect that I will live through the tribulation, or rather die in it.
My writing is not intended to be sour or bitter, but salty. :)
Perhaps too salty for some, but I wanted to get through a lot in this one post. Looking at it again, I suppose that the list of OT commands about genocide makes the whole post seem grim and angsty than I intended. Once I get deep into study, I just follow the evidence and don't really stop to think about how it seems to others. Once I finish and publish it, then it's off my chest and I go about my life gladly.
The only take I have is that the parables are confusing to most of the crowd because the crowd does not want to be taught by Jesus. They just want the ‘feel good, get the rush’ ear tickling affirmations instead of His wisdom hidden in the parables.
Thinking about it, the funny thought I have is that the reason why Gentile women like Rahab and Ruth ended up in the genealogy of Jesus as seen in Matthew was because their faith in God attracted Him to rewrite their destiny into being distant ancestors of Jesus.
Yes, the confusion is because we don't want to know. To say it's intended to confuse reminds me of my friend who likes the mic drop of 'God doesn't need us' and then says 'That's what scripture says, and I'm just sharing the Bible' ...
You're free to say that, but can we see it's all a bit 'my daddy is gonna punish you'
Come on Terry. There is more to this than what you are reducing it to.
We have to factor in the motives of the people Jesus speaks to.
For starter, what is a parable? The very fact of speaking a parable to the crowd tells us something. (Deception is a far more effective way to stop someone understanding something).
Yes for those with ears to hear it's like a blessing. For those without, the parable acts like a tool of judgment and mercy.
It's not like Jesus is keeping secrets. It's not 'given for them to know' because It's a mystery... which is different to a secret.
You have no clue what the motivations of the people in the crowd are, do you? Except, they came to hear Jesus speak. They expected a Messiah and knew about John the Baptist declaring Jesus to be him. They were evidently quite interested in learning about his message.
What stops you from accepting Christ's own motive? If it was merely their motivation, Jesus would have said that. But instead, he said that it wasn't for them to know, that it was only for the disciples, and he spoke in difficult parables in order to fulfill Isaiah's prophecy.
And again, the key point you're ignoring is that Jesus says -- in the context of understanding -- that to those who have understanding, more will be given to them, but to those who do not have it, WHATEVER THEY DO HAVE WILL BE "TAKEN AWAY". There is absolutely zero sense that Jesus was legitimately trying to bring clarity to the crowd, but rather a mission to TAKE AWAY the little bit of understanding they did have. If you try to deny and squirm out of accepting what Jesus says himself, then nothing I say can help.
The Lord of all is able to speak and has spoken through not only the prophets but even donkeys. He's able to reveal His divine nature through His creation and creatures despite flaws and falls.
He can move mountains without anyone asking but delights to do so when the genuine faith of his children is involved.
Without Him nothing was created. That includes reason and rationality. The deepest sense of right and wrong no matter how masked by experience or sinful behavior.
God has never differentiate between black, white or yellow but people are racists! Goad has never said kill or rape, but people do! God said protect your home, your land and your family, if those invaders are killing your family, taking your land from you then fight back and only then you have right to kill. God has never said steal from the poor or the neighbour, people do that. God said look after your neighbour, look after the vulnerable and the elderly. God never asked us to worship Satan, the devil or sell our souls, people do that for few shekels and they talk about it proudly. People use power, money, lies and heinous acts to ruin other people's lives, however, God promised them HELL. People have gone astray from the right path and commit unbelievable atrocities and get away with murder, but they won't get away it in the other life, they will pay dearly when no amount of money, lies, propaganda will help them!
I agree, God said no killing which Israel are doing, however, he said if they kill you, kill them or driven you out! Resistance is legal under International Law and Islamic Law! If they stop then stop.
"Kill them wherever you come upon them and drive them out of the places from which they driven you out. For persecution, is far worse than killing and do not fight them at the Sacred Mosques unless they attack you there. If they do so, then fight them -that is the reward of the disbelieves. But if they cease, them surely Allah is All-forgiving, Most merciful".
Yep - I don’t think your examples are necessarily examples of irrationality - 1. A ‘mystery’ doesn’t mean irrational- it means we don’t understand it because the rationality is hidden from us since we don’t perceive all - we are not omnipotent
2. All the examples of God smiting women and children also not ‘irrational’ either - the modern person would say examples show God is ‘cruel’. But biblical start point is that all are sinners and deserve damnation: see interesting discussion in book of Jonah - when God gives Noah shade and then withers it - and when Noah complains God says who do you think you are ? (I paraphrase)
Another poetic example of this is Bob Dylan’s song ‘Highway 61 revisited’ referencing the incredulous command by God to sacrifice Abraham’s new born son: God said
To Abraham ‘Kill me a son’ Abe says ‘what, you must be putting me on?’ God says ‘no’ ... Abe says ‘what?’
Because of course this son has been provided by God after years of waiting ...
3. This old covenant of ‘deservance’ of death is overcome by the death of Jesus who dies once and for all for all sins - that strikes me as both rational
I’m not sure you are right about that. There is some footage of an interview that gets played in support of that position, but I don’t think he is saying he has sold his soul. What about his song “ Gotta serve somebody” where he says “you;re going to have to serve somebody” ….”it may be the devil or it may be the Lord” - does that sound like someone serving the former?
“Don’t wear sandals, you can’t afford the scandal”….. or “knocking at heaven’s door” - I certainly don’t hear the servant of darkness in any of these songs! have a listen for yourself
"Chief Commander” - doesn’t necessarily sound nefarious to me….I’d rather give him the benefit of the doubt… but I understand how you view it that way…
It seems clear that you really like Bob Dylan and enjoy his music. However, this is no doubt here and, therefore, no "benefit" of doubt can be applied. Everyone knew what he was talking about, including Ed Bradley. If he had given his life the true God, through Christ, and was therefore blessed in his music, he would certainly come right out and say it, as is characteristic of all such people. But no. He is being deliberately cryptic. Deliberately subtle. He had explained that he was struggling in his career until the moment he made a deal with "the chief commander." Afterward, his career took off. There is no shortage of evidence of successful Hollywood people having sold their souls to Satan. And no shortage of evidence in their being involved in Free Masonry and occultism. Next you will tell me Free Masonry is a "Christian" group, perhaps. I might recommend you watch the 5 hour long video on YouTube called "Best Modern Exposure of Free Masonry." Things might become clearer to you. You are free to be a Dylan fan if you like. However, the fruit of Dylan's music career grew from the fact that Dylan consigned his soul to eternal damnation in the torment of fire because success in music was that important to him. In the end, I think he will find he made an extremely bad deal.
I see you feel very strongly about this. Maybe you are right. Just to be clear, I dont think Freemasonry etc is Christian. But I remember a time as a Christian, when I was relunctant to speak openly about what I believed. I would have been reluctant to say 'God' and would have used alternate expressions like 'Commander in Chief' to refer to God, (so hence my view that Dylan could also mean this). It's only when you are confronted with the horror of what is happening now (trafficing of children/ intenional infacticide on so many fronts) that you realise the time to talk in riddles is over, we are absolutely in a spiritual war and must speak clearly against what is happening. And through all this I've found there are so many other people who are Chrsitian (like your googd self) who are ready to stand against the tyranny and Godlessness that is everywhere.
But yes, I find many of Dylan's songs express an understanding of Christ's radical message (that I don't find in other's songs) so he shows a spiritual understadning that usually accompanies being a Chrsitian. I guess one day we will all know for sure!
Your writing is bitter, and disturbed. You purposefully ignore the loving messages of the Bible. If your purpose is to drive people away from the Word, you are doing a brilliant job....
I see this a lot... people who lean into the bitterness and I believe it's because of a disgust at what they perceive in the world and on tv... which I understand to a degree, but I agree with you, if you paint God as a puppet master monster then you are going to drive people away from the real loving message and rock solid truth of JC.
Just a man who serves Jesus Christ. I was raised Mennonite and I see them as a very good denomination, although even they have too much leftover Catholicism for my taste. I’m non-denominational.
I am also a man who serves Jesus. I was raised Catholic. Then I grew up and left the faith. Then, I had a mystical experience and converted or reverted back to Catholicism. Then, I discovered that about half the priests I had trusted were actually pedophiles or pedophile protectors and became very disillusioned with the faith again. Then I grew up more and stopped blaming God for things that men did.
I have discovered how deeply infiltrated and corrupt the Catholic Church is, but I cannot bring myself to become a non-denom. I know way too much about church history and traditional Catholic philosophy and theology for that. But I do like your thoughtful and provocative approach to Christianity. Peace. And keep up the good work.
Terry W. - I have to confess, that was extremely uncomfortable but, certainly interesting. I comfort myself with the idea that it's God's "universe," He certainly knows how to run it. And how He runs it is really none of my business. I knew a man named H. K. MacGreggor Wright, who must have died some time ago now, who told me, "God does what He jolly well likes." I never forgot those words. I find myself becoming irritated and uncomfortable when I hear over and over from people that we have free will. I've suspected for quite some time that we really don't. I have also felt uncomfortable with the idea that God loves everybody. And then there's the "limited atonement" question. And, frankly, I'm not sure what to make of it, and not certain I ever will. I've heard fine sounding arguments on both sides.
I'm not a theologian, but even if I were, why would I need an approach to explaining why God does things? Instead, I am curious, I ask God, and at least occasionally I receive answers, sometimes from scripture and sometimes in other ways.
That is sufficient, and I continue with what I understand I ought to be doing. Learning all of the "whys" is not part of that. What is so terrible about having to say "I don't know"? Does making something up make it better?
One thing those people that Jesus spoke to in parables appeared to lack was openness to discovery and change. As far as we know, only the disciples asked about the meanings and received answers.
The Bible tells us about God's character, so if you're going to ask questions about Him, that's where you look for answers. I'm just doing that.
I have already pointed out (in previous parts) the verses which clearly state that God hides wisdom and understanding from some people, and grants it to others. What you might see as "openness" is not a natural result of free will, but a fulfillment of prophecy where the people are not allowed to understand. The disciples themselves were clearly told things by Jesus before he died, yet God withheld understanding from them until after Christ's crucifixion, when they suddenly understood it.
Yes- we do learn about God’s character from reading the Bible- and it would be unfair if I didn’t tell you that I also at one point; came to some same conclusions; however, what if you are possibly missing a piece of the puzzle as to why you see an attitude of withholding or being misleading, giving collective punishment, making strange covenants or promises & having regret for creating man…after all, He created man in His image & what if that image has been tampered with since the beginning? That would give more insight into what feels (on the surface) like some being favored among others or knowing who is the elect. This is a mystery to man & possibly why you demonstrate a sense of injustice as God does not need to cherish man’s rationality- as His ways are higher. Sometimes we have to read between the lines to understand someone’s character. There is no room for discussion in a chess match- when mankind has been altered or tainted apart from the original copy we have to be more like Noah & seek out solutions- as it will be in these last days.
An interesting/provocative but sour interpretation. I do sense a punishing/hurt energy in your writing?
I notice this in intellectual types who are a bit world-weary, which is understandable.
Jesus parables are great catalysts and teaching aids…to say they are there to solely confuse is a very bitter perspective and I think does a disservice to the reality of them.
If I gave the impression that Christ's teachings were "solely" for confusion, that was accidental. I didn't think it was necessary to state the obvious: that the parables have great meaning and beauty for those who "have ears to hear". Yet, I'm sure you see my actual point: how Jesus was being disproportionate when he says that the little people have will be taken away from them, in the context of understanding. I wasn't analyzing the parables themselves, but the methodology.
I don't feel hurt in the slightest, but deeply thankful. I do sympathize with the tragedy of the world, though. The cosmic script God has written has a lot of misery, pain, and tragedy before it finally resolves in triumph and glory for eternity. I think all believers eagerly anticipate what's coming next, and lament the way things have been. Even Jesus asked for his part in the story to be changed in the garden, but in the end he accepted it. We don't have to enjoy the harsh parts of God's judgments, but we're approaching the darkest time in world history and I want to emotionally prepare myself for just how intense God can be. We've had a few hundred years of relative peace and stability. I expect that I will live through the tribulation, or rather die in it.
My writing is not intended to be sour or bitter, but salty. :)
Perhaps too salty for some, but I wanted to get through a lot in this one post. Looking at it again, I suppose that the list of OT commands about genocide makes the whole post seem grim and angsty than I intended. Once I get deep into study, I just follow the evidence and don't really stop to think about how it seems to others. Once I finish and publish it, then it's off my chest and I go about my life gladly.
Ok maybe it's a margarita then, salty and sour.
I appreciate the reply.
The only take I have is that the parables are confusing to most of the crowd because the crowd does not want to be taught by Jesus. They just want the ‘feel good, get the rush’ ear tickling affirmations instead of His wisdom hidden in the parables.
Thinking about it, the funny thought I have is that the reason why Gentile women like Rahab and Ruth ended up in the genealogy of Jesus as seen in Matthew was because their faith in God attracted Him to rewrite their destiny into being distant ancestors of Jesus.
Yes, the confusion is because we don't want to know. To say it's intended to confuse reminds me of my friend who likes the mic drop of 'God doesn't need us' and then says 'That's what scripture says, and I'm just sharing the Bible' ...
You're free to say that, but can we see it's all a bit 'my daddy is gonna punish you'
Jesus literally says that he spoke in parables so that the crowd would not understand because it was not "given for them to know"
Come on Terry. There is more to this than what you are reducing it to.
We have to factor in the motives of the people Jesus speaks to.
For starter, what is a parable? The very fact of speaking a parable to the crowd tells us something. (Deception is a far more effective way to stop someone understanding something).
Yes for those with ears to hear it's like a blessing. For those without, the parable acts like a tool of judgment and mercy.
It's not like Jesus is keeping secrets. It's not 'given for them to know' because It's a mystery... which is different to a secret.
The truth is available!
You have no clue what the motivations of the people in the crowd are, do you? Except, they came to hear Jesus speak. They expected a Messiah and knew about John the Baptist declaring Jesus to be him. They were evidently quite interested in learning about his message.
What stops you from accepting Christ's own motive? If it was merely their motivation, Jesus would have said that. But instead, he said that it wasn't for them to know, that it was only for the disciples, and he spoke in difficult parables in order to fulfill Isaiah's prophecy.
And again, the key point you're ignoring is that Jesus says -- in the context of understanding -- that to those who have understanding, more will be given to them, but to those who do not have it, WHATEVER THEY DO HAVE WILL BE "TAKEN AWAY". There is absolutely zero sense that Jesus was legitimately trying to bring clarity to the crowd, but rather a mission to TAKE AWAY the little bit of understanding they did have. If you try to deny and squirm out of accepting what Jesus says himself, then nothing I say can help.
Suggest listening to this lecture about difference between Plato and Aristotle:
https://soundcloud.com/mattehret/on-method-plato-vs-aristotle-lecture-02?
The Lord of all is able to speak and has spoken through not only the prophets but even donkeys. He's able to reveal His divine nature through His creation and creatures despite flaws and falls.
He can move mountains without anyone asking but delights to do so when the genuine faith of his children is involved.
Without Him nothing was created. That includes reason and rationality. The deepest sense of right and wrong no matter how masked by experience or sinful behavior.
God has never differentiate between black, white or yellow but people are racists! Goad has never said kill or rape, but people do! God said protect your home, your land and your family, if those invaders are killing your family, taking your land from you then fight back and only then you have right to kill. God has never said steal from the poor or the neighbour, people do that. God said look after your neighbour, look after the vulnerable and the elderly. God never asked us to worship Satan, the devil or sell our souls, people do that for few shekels and they talk about it proudly. People use power, money, lies and heinous acts to ruin other people's lives, however, God promised them HELL. People have gone astray from the right path and commit unbelievable atrocities and get away with murder, but they won't get away it in the other life, they will pay dearly when no amount of money, lies, propaganda will help them!
God never said to kill?
I agree, God said no killing which Israel are doing, however, he said if they kill you, kill them or driven you out! Resistance is legal under International Law and Islamic Law! If they stop then stop.
"Kill them wherever you come upon them and drive them out of the places from which they driven you out. For persecution, is far worse than killing and do not fight them at the Sacred Mosques unless they attack you there. If they do so, then fight them -that is the reward of the disbelieves. But if they cease, them surely Allah is All-forgiving, Most merciful".
Mosques and Allah?
Not Lucifer and money!!!
"People use power, money, lies and heinous acts to ruin other people's lives, however, God promised them HELL."
He appears to have also promised Hell to loving, modest, self-effacing people who never did any of those things.
Yep - I don’t think your examples are necessarily examples of irrationality - 1. A ‘mystery’ doesn’t mean irrational- it means we don’t understand it because the rationality is hidden from us since we don’t perceive all - we are not omnipotent
2. All the examples of God smiting women and children also not ‘irrational’ either - the modern person would say examples show God is ‘cruel’. But biblical start point is that all are sinners and deserve damnation: see interesting discussion in book of Jonah - when God gives Noah shade and then withers it - and when Noah complains God says who do you think you are ? (I paraphrase)
Another poetic example of this is Bob Dylan’s song ‘Highway 61 revisited’ referencing the incredulous command by God to sacrifice Abraham’s new born son: God said
To Abraham ‘Kill me a son’ Abe says ‘what, you must be putting me on?’ God says ‘no’ ... Abe says ‘what?’
Because of course this son has been provided by God after years of waiting ...
3. This old covenant of ‘deservance’ of death is overcome by the death of Jesus who dies once and for all for all sins - that strikes me as both rational
and amazing - mystery revealed.
I don't think you read the article.
You know Bob Dylan literally sold his soul to the devil for wealth and fame, right? I wouldn't listen wo a word Dylan ever said, if I were you.
I’m not sure you are right about that. There is some footage of an interview that gets played in support of that position, but I don’t think he is saying he has sold his soul. What about his song “ Gotta serve somebody” where he says “you;re going to have to serve somebody” ….”it may be the devil or it may be the Lord” - does that sound like someone serving the former?
“Don’t wear sandals, you can’t afford the scandal”….. or “knocking at heaven’s door” - I certainly don’t hear the servant of darkness in any of these songs! have a listen for yourself
https://youtube.com/shorts/O-bri9ZC-mg?si=jED0dL6iME-Ar6Bb
"Chief Commander” - doesn’t necessarily sound nefarious to me….I’d rather give him the benefit of the doubt… but I understand how you view it that way…
It seems clear that you really like Bob Dylan and enjoy his music. However, this is no doubt here and, therefore, no "benefit" of doubt can be applied. Everyone knew what he was talking about, including Ed Bradley. If he had given his life the true God, through Christ, and was therefore blessed in his music, he would certainly come right out and say it, as is characteristic of all such people. But no. He is being deliberately cryptic. Deliberately subtle. He had explained that he was struggling in his career until the moment he made a deal with "the chief commander." Afterward, his career took off. There is no shortage of evidence of successful Hollywood people having sold their souls to Satan. And no shortage of evidence in their being involved in Free Masonry and occultism. Next you will tell me Free Masonry is a "Christian" group, perhaps. I might recommend you watch the 5 hour long video on YouTube called "Best Modern Exposure of Free Masonry." Things might become clearer to you. You are free to be a Dylan fan if you like. However, the fruit of Dylan's music career grew from the fact that Dylan consigned his soul to eternal damnation in the torment of fire because success in music was that important to him. In the end, I think he will find he made an extremely bad deal.
I see you feel very strongly about this. Maybe you are right. Just to be clear, I dont think Freemasonry etc is Christian. But I remember a time as a Christian, when I was relunctant to speak openly about what I believed. I would have been reluctant to say 'God' and would have used alternate expressions like 'Commander in Chief' to refer to God, (so hence my view that Dylan could also mean this). It's only when you are confronted with the horror of what is happening now (trafficing of children/ intenional infacticide on so many fronts) that you realise the time to talk in riddles is over, we are absolutely in a spiritual war and must speak clearly against what is happening. And through all this I've found there are so many other people who are Chrsitian (like your googd self) who are ready to stand against the tyranny and Godlessness that is everywhere.
But yes, I find many of Dylan's songs express an understanding of Christ's radical message (that I don't find in other's songs) so he shows a spiritual understadning that usually accompanies being a Chrsitian. I guess one day we will all know for sure!
Job 38
Your writing is bitter, and disturbed. You purposefully ignore the loving messages of the Bible. If your purpose is to drive people away from the Word, you are doing a brilliant job....
I see this a lot... people who lean into the bitterness and I believe it's because of a disgust at what they perceive in the world and on tv... which I understand to a degree, but I agree with you, if you paint God as a puppet master monster then you are going to drive people away from the real loving message and rock solid truth of JC.
Protestant!
Incorrect.
Catholic then?
Nope. Glad to not be on either of the false sides.
Then what? (Not trying to be combative, just curious).
Just a man who serves Jesus Christ. I was raised Mennonite and I see them as a very good denomination, although even they have too much leftover Catholicism for my taste. I’m non-denominational.
I am also a man who serves Jesus. I was raised Catholic. Then I grew up and left the faith. Then, I had a mystical experience and converted or reverted back to Catholicism. Then, I discovered that about half the priests I had trusted were actually pedophiles or pedophile protectors and became very disillusioned with the faith again. Then I grew up more and stopped blaming God for things that men did.
I have discovered how deeply infiltrated and corrupt the Catholic Church is, but I cannot bring myself to become a non-denom. I know way too much about church history and traditional Catholic philosophy and theology for that. But I do like your thoughtful and provocative approach to Christianity. Peace. And keep up the good work.