I always come up against a brick wall when I'm asked to believe that God, who loves everyone, without exception, picks certain people from before they were born and CAUSES them to fail (not be part of the Elect) after which he will punish and torture them for that failure.
Is God manipulating the minds of the global oligarchy who practise hideous cruelties on children?
I feel the same way! I question why would a loving God that claims to love us allow children, who are pure souls, be sex trafficked, abused and tortured!?
I can get my head round the notion that God lets things happen that Satan is basically inspiring, but not that God Himself is manipulating people to do evil things. That goes over my head. As does the whole thing of people being literally brought into the world to end up as tortured souls (and I'm also asked to feel joyful about that, even if some of them are people I love). I'm obviously missing something.
You're not missing anything Sheila. This is an absurdly wrong and spiritually abusive interpretation of scripture being put forward in this article. I say this whilst affirming the sovereignty of God.
I challenge you to quote anything from my article that is "absurdly wrong" or "spiritually abusive". If you can't, then all you're doing is falsely accusing me. I didn't say the things Sheila is concerned about, so don't project it onto me.
“A mans heart diviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps” Proverbs 16:9
When the pharaohs heart was hardened, it was a judgment…just like when adam and eve ate the fruit, there was a judgment…consequences to actions…God is not a puppet master Terry. We have agency and he is sovereign. What we do matters, thank God!
“We are not responsible for history” reminds me of someone who said “God doesn’t need us” - whats your point? What do you even mean by that?
Seriously, the undertone of this writing sounds abusive and defeatist. It sounds like a twisted take on scripture.
If you want to have your puny (just like mine, in comparison with God's) human mind and understanding twisted a little more, read 2Samuel24:1,17 and then read 1Chronicles 21:1,8. I have to simply say to God and to myself, God, Your thoughts are infinitely higher than my thoughts, and Your ways than my ways. It's good that You are sovereign and all-wise and loving beyond our capacity to understand.
And just to show that there are always higher plans going on than our human wisdom can grasp, if you read the whole story, the threshing floor that David bought, and upon which he set up the altar and offered a sacrifice to God to end the plague brought on by his ordering the census, became the site of Solomon's temple and its altar of sacrifice, the foreshadowing of the Cross of Christ, on the same Mt Moriah, by now Jerusalem / Mt Zion, where Abraham was directed by God to go to sacrifice his only son.
This was very thought provokingTerry, and your theories and conclusion are well presented.
I think I remember you stating something somewhere to the point of God’s work in His creation continues beyond the physical body after the grave, and that people may have the chance to repent and turn upon seeing the Truth. Not sure if this is in line with Christian universalism, or how the theories differ. And how your theories may differ from Calvinism.
Very interesting topics, I will be looking forward to the discussions!
So if Elon Musk is a "fake genius" (which I would completely disagree with) , and governments are misguided and corrupt (morally and otherwise) offer some real world practical advice on the peaceful coexistence of men. I'm a completely flawed Christian, but you and I both function in the here and the now.
Like others have stated above, it is highly paradoxical to come to understand the goodness of God, and yet ponder the implications of how things are ran if it is a narrative.
Of course, we are nothing to question God, then why give us a faculty in which to do it? He knows that these natiral conclusions will be made, yet I can see this being used as a mechanism of faith displayment.
How can I spread the word about the love of God to someone who has known only suffrage comprared to my relatively blessed life? Or, entire people groups who have heard the name of Jesus but obviously wouldn't come to believe.
Then I think, well Christianity is a global network. I am of the firm belief that a christian exists in almost every part of the world, irrespective of the culture that inhabits it, so it's not necessarily a culturally thing in my eyes and the rest of humanity would simply be fenced or playing for the satanic conspiracy—knowingly or unknowingly.
It still boils down to God doesn't seem to value human life or carnal life in general, but he values people. Which may conflict with him not being a respecter of persons, unless the value of the person has come after they have filled the slotted role for the script?
Terry, would you mind providing a brief and succinct defense against philosophical determinism?
I appreciate and understand your theory in essence. I went to a Dutch reformed university after all, and I personally identify as a supralapsinarian (which is the view that God knew about the fall and created the world in knowledge that a fallen world would maximize his love through Jesus Christ dying on a cross).
However, with that being said, if Christianity is ontologically equivalent to philosophical determinism it makes God the author and source of evil, and renders life philosophically meaningless.
I always come up against a brick wall when I'm asked to believe that God, who loves everyone, without exception, picks certain people from before they were born and CAUSES them to fail (not be part of the Elect) after which he will punish and torture them for that failure.
Is God manipulating the minds of the global oligarchy who practise hideous cruelties on children?
Very good question. I'll be discussing this more
Thanks Terry. I'm not being flippant - I would like to understand, so I look forward to reading more on the subject.
I feel the same way! I question why would a loving God that claims to love us allow children, who are pure souls, be sex trafficked, abused and tortured!?
I can get my head round the notion that God lets things happen that Satan is basically inspiring, but not that God Himself is manipulating people to do evil things. That goes over my head. As does the whole thing of people being literally brought into the world to end up as tortured souls (and I'm also asked to feel joyful about that, even if some of them are people I love). I'm obviously missing something.
You're not missing anything Sheila. This is an absurdly wrong and spiritually abusive interpretation of scripture being put forward in this article. I say this whilst affirming the sovereignty of God.
I challenge you to quote anything from my article that is "absurdly wrong" or "spiritually abusive". If you can't, then all you're doing is falsely accusing me. I didn't say the things Sheila is concerned about, so don't project it onto me.
“A mans heart diviseth his way, but the Lord directeth his steps” Proverbs 16:9
When the pharaohs heart was hardened, it was a judgment…just like when adam and eve ate the fruit, there was a judgment…consequences to actions…God is not a puppet master Terry. We have agency and he is sovereign. What we do matters, thank God!
“We are not responsible for history” reminds me of someone who said “God doesn’t need us” - whats your point? What do you even mean by that?
Seriously, the undertone of this writing sounds abusive and defeatist. It sounds like a twisted take on scripture.
If you want to have your puny (just like mine, in comparison with God's) human mind and understanding twisted a little more, read 2Samuel24:1,17 and then read 1Chronicles 21:1,8. I have to simply say to God and to myself, God, Your thoughts are infinitely higher than my thoughts, and Your ways than my ways. It's good that You are sovereign and all-wise and loving beyond our capacity to understand.
And just to show that there are always higher plans going on than our human wisdom can grasp, if you read the whole story, the threshing floor that David bought, and upon which he set up the altar and offered a sacrifice to God to end the plague brought on by his ordering the census, became the site of Solomon's temple and its altar of sacrifice, the foreshadowing of the Cross of Christ, on the same Mt Moriah, by now Jerusalem / Mt Zion, where Abraham was directed by God to go to sacrifice his only son.
This was very thought provokingTerry, and your theories and conclusion are well presented.
I think I remember you stating something somewhere to the point of God’s work in His creation continues beyond the physical body after the grave, and that people may have the chance to repent and turn upon seeing the Truth. Not sure if this is in line with Christian universalism, or how the theories differ. And how your theories may differ from Calvinism.
Very interesting topics, I will be looking forward to the discussions!
Great question, I'll respond to this
your stuff is very interesting Terry.
So if Elon Musk is a "fake genius" (which I would completely disagree with) , and governments are misguided and corrupt (morally and otherwise) offer some real world practical advice on the peaceful coexistence of men. I'm a completely flawed Christian, but you and I both function in the here and the now.
Like others have stated above, it is highly paradoxical to come to understand the goodness of God, and yet ponder the implications of how things are ran if it is a narrative.
Of course, we are nothing to question God, then why give us a faculty in which to do it? He knows that these natiral conclusions will be made, yet I can see this being used as a mechanism of faith displayment.
How can I spread the word about the love of God to someone who has known only suffrage comprared to my relatively blessed life? Or, entire people groups who have heard the name of Jesus but obviously wouldn't come to believe.
Then I think, well Christianity is a global network. I am of the firm belief that a christian exists in almost every part of the world, irrespective of the culture that inhabits it, so it's not necessarily a culturally thing in my eyes and the rest of humanity would simply be fenced or playing for the satanic conspiracy—knowingly or unknowingly.
It still boils down to God doesn't seem to value human life or carnal life in general, but he values people. Which may conflict with him not being a respecter of persons, unless the value of the person has come after they have filled the slotted role for the script?
Terry, would you mind providing a brief and succinct defense against philosophical determinism?
I appreciate and understand your theory in essence. I went to a Dutch reformed university after all, and I personally identify as a supralapsinarian (which is the view that God knew about the fall and created the world in knowledge that a fallen world would maximize his love through Jesus Christ dying on a cross).
However, with that being said, if Christianity is ontologically equivalent to philosophical determinism it makes God the author and source of evil, and renders life philosophically meaningless.
I will address this
Thank you, take your time, and God bless. Heard it’s cold in Manitoba! Stay warm (: