I have also become basically anti-social and have practically no friends left anymore. But if i did, and one of them invited me to their dinner party, you are exactly the person I hope they’d sit me next to.
Thank you. I'm getting your points. When you mentioned the ecumenical movement it brought to mind the Trump photo-op in front of the DC church that was attacked during the riots. I looked closely to see whether it was upside down lol and which translation the Bible was. It was a unification version. Politics is not something I participate in. It is good however, to be be aware of world events, lies, and deceptions. We are talking with many who are deceived by these false realities. Why are Christian churches not exposing the dangers of secret societies, signs and symbols, and politics? The rulers of this world are not friends of the groom (Jesus). I believe that any top down Christianity hierarchy is a failure and does not follow the true first century example. The closest thing I saw was the Stone and Campbell movement, called Congregationalist. They have since evolved into the same mess as the others with the acceptance of trinitarianism. Why does Satan need to have all so called Christian sects to accept the trinity belief? What does he have planned for the near future?
For me, the simplest way to understanding God, is to, first, view Him not so much as God... but as a Father. As any good father can attest, they love their children (even when they do wrong).
In Heaven, in a perfected state, pain of a physical nature can not exist... but in the emotional state, pain, anger and that of joy - must remain.
When our Father told Adam and Eve they were forbidden to eat of the Tree of Knowledge, like any wise Father, he knew that, being told "no," would sultrily spark curiosity... and they would do so anyway. Which was paramount that they do... else they would have remained in that state of ignorance... knowing neither good no evil (they didn't even realize they were naked).
If they had remained in that state of ignorance, they would never do what needed done, to "fall" into a state where they'd discover joy, pain, fear and love... and desire, for each other; and to propagate. If they remained in the Garden of Eden, we would not be; and God's plan would have been frustrated.
Our Father did not lie, nor did He contradict Himself when he told Adam and Eve of their fate should they eat of The Tree of Knowledge, He merely stated that in "the day you you eat of it, you will surely die." Not telling them when they will die, only that it will come to pass. Allowing them, as it must be, to make their own choices, allowing them their own freedom to choose.
Satan was there too, listening with intent. He could, as he has always done... mix a lie within the truth... letting Adam and Eve know they would become like God, knowing both good and evil (true), but that they would not die (true, but false... for death would come many years later - Satan left that part out).
Understanding the phrase, "created in His image," to me, is also easily understood... when one just looks at all of nature and life. It's sole purpose is to propagate, even if it means sacrificing ones own life for the sake of creating new life. In that sense, we are created in His image because... we are, literally, His children.
To say much more would be to cheat myself... as this is a subject I wish to write about; once I have my own Substack publishing account set up (financial issues - and a lack of an account, anywhere - prohibits me from completing the needed forms (I'm sure I'll need a bank/credit union account for my wishful/hopeful paid subscribers funds to be deposited in). But, that day will come.
And, by the way, a very excellent piece you have written, thank you!
Certainly a Christian should learn to think of God as our Father. But Jesus also called some people the children of Satan, their father. So it seems humans are adopted by spiritual beings.
Most certainly they are (or, can be). It comes down to ones' own choice - which master they choose to follow. Those that choose Satan over God (and His Son) become "tools" in the hands of Satan, whom, in my opinion, absolutely hates them - but pretends to be their friend. Those that 'lick the boots' of the devil, he likely despises them the most - traitors they are in the devils mind. Living men and woman have freedom of choice, which was our Father's plan from the beginning; a plan the Only Begotten agreed with. Lucifer (who became Satan) thought force, not choice, was the better path... he managed to convince 1/3rd of the Host of Heaven. How many of the two thirds that chose God's plan over Lucifer's plan did so only, perhaps, out of fear of consequence (or simply to be on the side of the majority) ? If they now, here on this Earth, choose Satan as their master... would not Satan hate them the most? View them as traitors? As weaklings that 'lick his boot?' The Father knew there MUST be freedom of choice, else one CANNOT develop their OWN character.
I love the fire part, as it relates to being a very painful and yet necessary lifelong, Refining fire. Like a silversmith, but our Creator working in us individually through His very intensely purposeful refining fire, just until He sees His holy reflection.
Thanks brother Terry for always courageously sharing your in-depth musings! 🕊️
Okay, you're beginning to convince me that you have developed a profound disregard for God. What's with 'God is concerned about his image,' 'God doesn't like lukewarm churches because they are boring,' God just arbitrarily killed humanity in the flood-they didn't know what was coming...' Maybe Noah warning them for years was just a bust. Maybe their violence and wanting to do their own thing and ignoring the warnings were ignored because they knew better than God and they chose to be separated from God.
Acknowledging God's existence or power is not the same as saving faith; even demons believe.
Without faith (about who He is), it is impossible to please God. Faith trusts in the character of God. He is a good, loving, generous and merciful Father. Our convictions come from experiencing God's love and the faithfulness of His Word. Heroes like Abraham, Sarah, Moses, Joseph and David relied on God to fulfill His promises.
Being made in God's Image: Means humans have the unique capacity to know their creator. The image of God reflects God's own qualities, giving people rational minds and moral agency to act as free and independent beings. We freely give our love to Him and are able to have a real living and growing ongoing relationship with Him because of that.
Satan is a liar, telling half-truths, the most common form of lying. Adam and Eve had an intrinsic knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit; God created them with free will and the capacity to choose between right and wrong. The forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge was a test of their obedience and desire to follow God's instructions. God warned that eating this fruit would result in death and separation from Him.
Having caused Eve to doubt God's word and believe that rebellion had no bad consequences, Satan went on to cause her to doubt God's very character and goodness, that "you will be like God." He tempts Eve with the prospect of being equal to God and implying He would be jealous. Doubting God's good character is always at the root of rebellion against Him.
They did die, contrary to cool Satan's advice.
Their spiritual death meant a permanent separation and a broken connection between humans and God.
The Tree of Life in the Garden was intended to offer eternal life. Eating from it after sinning would have perpetuated their sinful state. They spiritually died (were separated from God by their own actions) immediately. And then God put them out of the Garden so that they could no longer eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life, ensuring their physical death.
Jesus came that we may be reconciled.
"Praise the Lord, my soul; all my inmost being, praise His holy name. Praise the Lord, my soul, and forget not all His benefits - who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion, who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's."
Show me a verse where Noah warned the world about the Flood.
God is explicitly said to care about His reputation (His name’s sake, and how it is regarded by the nations)
Not only is lukewarm bad because it is boring, but this matches the “salt that has no savor” verse where Jesus says it’s “good for nothing”, showing that God values what is interesting, flavorful, and different
God destroyed the world out of passion for their evil, not arbitrarily.
You have a false version of the Bible if you think the inhabitants of the world were given a bunch of warnings about the Flood. “Warnings them for years”? Why are YOU making up fake stories about the Bible? “They chose to be separated”? It’s dangerous for you to create an entirely different narrative, so please go back and read Genesis 6 and 7 again.
I don’t blame you for being ignorant, because most churches go very far out of their way to smooth off the rough edges, just like I said. They try to create as much cushioning around God’s judgments as possible, rather than really look at what it says. Once you get past being offended, I think you’ll see that I am respecting the text. And I think the “profound disregard” belongs to those who refuse to worship God for who He really is.
I like that Zoomers keep coming up with new terms for things, I have heard of this and find it funny, but it is true for a guy like me. Plenty of invitations to join larger groups, but I liked to keep to myself and my small number of friends.
Hi Terry from a kindred spirit. I have always since becoming a Christian in 1986 had a rocky Christian road, backsliding and questioning. At the moment I feel like I’m in the wilderness with more questions than answers. I still believe but I need help to believe more. I hope we both find the answers to our questions as until we do we will never be satiated. God bless us both. Amen.
"God was sending a message to the elohim more than to humanity, I’m convinced.":
This for some reason reminds me of the view expressed by certain scholars concerning the focus of the 5th commandment, that the focus was upon the parents rather than upon blaming the victims (the children). If the parents didn't honor their parents, what would their children be like, and what would that produce in generations to follow?
Our tendencies to err may in many ways have their roots upstream in the people who raised and taught us, and also possibly misled and/or abused us (too often both).
Sin originated not on earth but in the heavenly realm. Such is possible or else our origin story is not true. Unholiness is possible in a holy realm. There appear to me to be recurring biblical themes of replicational / reproductive fidelity, error correction, and yield. Perhaps we should take a closer look at all that. It might explain a few things.
Why would we (or God) even want perfect reproductive fidelity? Assembly-line replication? I'd guess from scripture that what God created in creating us is an inherently risky, variable thing, and He knew that very well and planned for it. But he equips his children to battle evil, standing firm and stepping into potentially deadly encounters when called upon to do so, while relying upon Him (not ourselves) for the means to win, while the active warriors are prayed for by the others (Ephesians 6:10-20, when understood well -- there's original-language detail there that I never hear preached).
And I wonder about how those children might in the future, beyond this age, be called upon to apply what they learned here.
I wonder if you have discovered the work of Michael Heiser? I just listened to a podcast he did on imaging God I think you would find interesting. I loved hearing your description of yourself and your passion, it made me feel less alone.
Earth is order/stability, water is deep chaos, air is spirit/unseen movement of higher thinking, fire is judgement and purification.
I heard from a theologian once that the word translated as image, actually can mean reflection. ..which is a whole other ballgame..
Although God is all knowing , and full of love, I think we could be an experiment in the physical, and perhaps fire is the best way out for our souls to ascend purified, as the body rots back into the physical plane. Anyway, stop apologising for thinking about meaning and consistency. I wonder if the spiritual world works to the rules of logic, I think we look for what we call logic and it is perhaps irrelevant because we don’t understand what lies beyond. ..I too struggle with inconsistencies in the written word, and yet I also feel myself being shaped by signs and wonders. God knows that upon death you will exclaim ‘if only I had known!’ . We’ll all find out at some point x
Adam did not make it through the first millenium. The book of James tells us that a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day. In the day you eat of it.... Perhaps Adam and Eve were originally designed to be immortal in physical body also, but violated the terms of the deal.
We know that's not true. Don't forget that there was also the Tree of Life, that's what would have made their mortal bodies immortal. Let's not drag in the "a day is like a thousand years" argument as if that applies. God had mercy on them, plain and simple.
We need to reclaim our free will. Some of the most valuable things that I've found. stop using fiat currency. So I stopped using a personal bank account in 2019. This is key because, you know, the more tied in and compliant we are with their system,
the easier it's going to be for them to roll this out. And if you can do whatever you can to get outside of the health care system as it is, because that's usually a trap and a justification for people to work in jobs that they don't like for health insurance and everything else.
This is going to be a big part of how they try to trap you in the system. And then, you know, look for food that's outside of public health recommendations. I mean, I always say, but, you know, boycott public health, boycott mainstream media.
And if you can't get your kids out of government schools, those are some just tangible things. Actual things that you can do yourself that don't even require voting or external systems
I have also become basically anti-social and have practically no friends left anymore. But if i did, and one of them invited me to their dinner party, you are exactly the person I hope they’d sit me next to.
Thank you. But you won't find me at any dinner parties
Welp. I guess I’ll just graciously settle for the sharing of your musings on here.
Thank you. I'm getting your points. When you mentioned the ecumenical movement it brought to mind the Trump photo-op in front of the DC church that was attacked during the riots. I looked closely to see whether it was upside down lol and which translation the Bible was. It was a unification version. Politics is not something I participate in. It is good however, to be be aware of world events, lies, and deceptions. We are talking with many who are deceived by these false realities. Why are Christian churches not exposing the dangers of secret societies, signs and symbols, and politics? The rulers of this world are not friends of the groom (Jesus). I believe that any top down Christianity hierarchy is a failure and does not follow the true first century example. The closest thing I saw was the Stone and Campbell movement, called Congregationalist. They have since evolved into the same mess as the others with the acceptance of trinitarianism. Why does Satan need to have all so called Christian sects to accept the trinity belief? What does he have planned for the near future?
For me, the simplest way to understanding God, is to, first, view Him not so much as God... but as a Father. As any good father can attest, they love their children (even when they do wrong).
In Heaven, in a perfected state, pain of a physical nature can not exist... but in the emotional state, pain, anger and that of joy - must remain.
When our Father told Adam and Eve they were forbidden to eat of the Tree of Knowledge, like any wise Father, he knew that, being told "no," would sultrily spark curiosity... and they would do so anyway. Which was paramount that they do... else they would have remained in that state of ignorance... knowing neither good no evil (they didn't even realize they were naked).
If they had remained in that state of ignorance, they would never do what needed done, to "fall" into a state where they'd discover joy, pain, fear and love... and desire, for each other; and to propagate. If they remained in the Garden of Eden, we would not be; and God's plan would have been frustrated.
Our Father did not lie, nor did He contradict Himself when he told Adam and Eve of their fate should they eat of The Tree of Knowledge, He merely stated that in "the day you you eat of it, you will surely die." Not telling them when they will die, only that it will come to pass. Allowing them, as it must be, to make their own choices, allowing them their own freedom to choose.
Satan was there too, listening with intent. He could, as he has always done... mix a lie within the truth... letting Adam and Eve know they would become like God, knowing both good and evil (true), but that they would not die (true, but false... for death would come many years later - Satan left that part out).
Understanding the phrase, "created in His image," to me, is also easily understood... when one just looks at all of nature and life. It's sole purpose is to propagate, even if it means sacrificing ones own life for the sake of creating new life. In that sense, we are created in His image because... we are, literally, His children.
To say much more would be to cheat myself... as this is a subject I wish to write about; once I have my own Substack publishing account set up (financial issues - and a lack of an account, anywhere - prohibits me from completing the needed forms (I'm sure I'll need a bank/credit union account for my wishful/hopeful paid subscribers funds to be deposited in). But, that day will come.
And, by the way, a very excellent piece you have written, thank you!
Certainly a Christian should learn to think of God as our Father. But Jesus also called some people the children of Satan, their father. So it seems humans are adopted by spiritual beings.
Most certainly they are (or, can be). It comes down to ones' own choice - which master they choose to follow. Those that choose Satan over God (and His Son) become "tools" in the hands of Satan, whom, in my opinion, absolutely hates them - but pretends to be their friend. Those that 'lick the boots' of the devil, he likely despises them the most - traitors they are in the devils mind. Living men and woman have freedom of choice, which was our Father's plan from the beginning; a plan the Only Begotten agreed with. Lucifer (who became Satan) thought force, not choice, was the better path... he managed to convince 1/3rd of the Host of Heaven. How many of the two thirds that chose God's plan over Lucifer's plan did so only, perhaps, out of fear of consequence (or simply to be on the side of the majority) ? If they now, here on this Earth, choose Satan as their master... would not Satan hate them the most? View them as traitors? As weaklings that 'lick his boot?' The Father knew there MUST be freedom of choice, else one CANNOT develop their OWN character.
I love the fire part, as it relates to being a very painful and yet necessary lifelong, Refining fire. Like a silversmith, but our Creator working in us individually through His very intensely purposeful refining fire, just until He sees His holy reflection.
Thanks brother Terry for always courageously sharing your in-depth musings! 🕊️
Excellent title. That definitely got my interest as I felt "wtf is this guy talking about "!?
Great piece overall. I will revisit this as there are numerous helpful ideas in here. Thanks.
I'm glad. These kinds of rambling posts feel quite risky to me.
Whoa! You are on fire, en fuego! Burn baby, burn. You're like a disco inferno!
Okay, you're beginning to convince me that you have developed a profound disregard for God. What's with 'God is concerned about his image,' 'God doesn't like lukewarm churches because they are boring,' God just arbitrarily killed humanity in the flood-they didn't know what was coming...' Maybe Noah warning them for years was just a bust. Maybe their violence and wanting to do their own thing and ignoring the warnings were ignored because they knew better than God and they chose to be separated from God.
Acknowledging God's existence or power is not the same as saving faith; even demons believe.
Without faith (about who He is), it is impossible to please God. Faith trusts in the character of God. He is a good, loving, generous and merciful Father. Our convictions come from experiencing God's love and the faithfulness of His Word. Heroes like Abraham, Sarah, Moses, Joseph and David relied on God to fulfill His promises.
Being made in God's Image: Means humans have the unique capacity to know their creator. The image of God reflects God's own qualities, giving people rational minds and moral agency to act as free and independent beings. We freely give our love to Him and are able to have a real living and growing ongoing relationship with Him because of that.
Satan is a liar, telling half-truths, the most common form of lying. Adam and Eve had an intrinsic knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit; God created them with free will and the capacity to choose between right and wrong. The forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge was a test of their obedience and desire to follow God's instructions. God warned that eating this fruit would result in death and separation from Him.
Having caused Eve to doubt God's word and believe that rebellion had no bad consequences, Satan went on to cause her to doubt God's very character and goodness, that "you will be like God." He tempts Eve with the prospect of being equal to God and implying He would be jealous. Doubting God's good character is always at the root of rebellion against Him.
They did die, contrary to cool Satan's advice.
Their spiritual death meant a permanent separation and a broken connection between humans and God.
The Tree of Life in the Garden was intended to offer eternal life. Eating from it after sinning would have perpetuated their sinful state. They spiritually died (were separated from God by their own actions) immediately. And then God put them out of the Garden so that they could no longer eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life, ensuring their physical death.
Jesus came that we may be reconciled.
"Praise the Lord, my soul; all my inmost being, praise His holy name. Praise the Lord, my soul, and forget not all His benefits - who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases, who redeems your life from the pit and crowns you with love and compassion, who satisfies your desires with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's."
Psalm 103:1-5
Show me a verse where Noah warned the world about the Flood.
God is explicitly said to care about His reputation (His name’s sake, and how it is regarded by the nations)
Not only is lukewarm bad because it is boring, but this matches the “salt that has no savor” verse where Jesus says it’s “good for nothing”, showing that God values what is interesting, flavorful, and different
God destroyed the world out of passion for their evil, not arbitrarily.
You have a false version of the Bible if you think the inhabitants of the world were given a bunch of warnings about the Flood. “Warnings them for years”? Why are YOU making up fake stories about the Bible? “They chose to be separated”? It’s dangerous for you to create an entirely different narrative, so please go back and read Genesis 6 and 7 again.
I don’t blame you for being ignorant, because most churches go very far out of their way to smooth off the rough edges, just like I said. They try to create as much cushioning around God’s judgments as possible, rather than really look at what it says. Once you get past being offended, I think you’ll see that I am respecting the text. And I think the “profound disregard” belongs to those who refuse to worship God for who He really is.
Terry.. you might be a "Sigma" male... look up on You Tube
I like that Zoomers keep coming up with new terms for things, I have heard of this and find it funny, but it is true for a guy like me. Plenty of invitations to join larger groups, but I liked to keep to myself and my small number of friends.
Hi Terry from a kindred spirit. I have always since becoming a Christian in 1986 had a rocky Christian road, backsliding and questioning. At the moment I feel like I’m in the wilderness with more questions than answers. I still believe but I need help to believe more. I hope we both find the answers to our questions as until we do we will never be satiated. God bless us both. Amen.
"God was sending a message to the elohim more than to humanity, I’m convinced.":
This for some reason reminds me of the view expressed by certain scholars concerning the focus of the 5th commandment, that the focus was upon the parents rather than upon blaming the victims (the children). If the parents didn't honor their parents, what would their children be like, and what would that produce in generations to follow?
Our tendencies to err may in many ways have their roots upstream in the people who raised and taught us, and also possibly misled and/or abused us (too often both).
Sin originated not on earth but in the heavenly realm. Such is possible or else our origin story is not true. Unholiness is possible in a holy realm. There appear to me to be recurring biblical themes of replicational / reproductive fidelity, error correction, and yield. Perhaps we should take a closer look at all that. It might explain a few things.
Why would we (or God) even want perfect reproductive fidelity? Assembly-line replication? I'd guess from scripture that what God created in creating us is an inherently risky, variable thing, and He knew that very well and planned for it. But he equips his children to battle evil, standing firm and stepping into potentially deadly encounters when called upon to do so, while relying upon Him (not ourselves) for the means to win, while the active warriors are prayed for by the others (Ephesians 6:10-20, when understood well -- there's original-language detail there that I never hear preached).
And I wonder about how those children might in the future, beyond this age, be called upon to apply what they learned here.
I wonder if you have discovered the work of Michael Heiser? I just listened to a podcast he did on imaging God I think you would find interesting. I loved hearing your description of yourself and your passion, it made me feel less alone.
I did read Unseen Realm, and I have checked out some of his other books. It really helped shape my view of the Old Testament.
I kinda figured.
Earth is order/stability, water is deep chaos, air is spirit/unseen movement of higher thinking, fire is judgement and purification.
I heard from a theologian once that the word translated as image, actually can mean reflection. ..which is a whole other ballgame..
Although God is all knowing , and full of love, I think we could be an experiment in the physical, and perhaps fire is the best way out for our souls to ascend purified, as the body rots back into the physical plane. Anyway, stop apologising for thinking about meaning and consistency. I wonder if the spiritual world works to the rules of logic, I think we look for what we call logic and it is perhaps irrelevant because we don’t understand what lies beyond. ..I too struggle with inconsistencies in the written word, and yet I also feel myself being shaped by signs and wonders. God knows that upon death you will exclaim ‘if only I had known!’ . We’ll all find out at some point x
Adam did not make it through the first millenium. The book of James tells us that a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day. In the day you eat of it.... Perhaps Adam and Eve were originally designed to be immortal in physical body also, but violated the terms of the deal.
We know that's not true. Don't forget that there was also the Tree of Life, that's what would have made their mortal bodies immortal. Let's not drag in the "a day is like a thousand years" argument as if that applies. God had mercy on them, plain and simple.
Aaron Day;
We need to reclaim our free will. Some of the most valuable things that I've found. stop using fiat currency. So I stopped using a personal bank account in 2019. This is key because, you know, the more tied in and compliant we are with their system,
the easier it's going to be for them to roll this out. And if you can do whatever you can to get outside of the health care system as it is, because that's usually a trap and a justification for people to work in jobs that they don't like for health insurance and everything else.
This is going to be a big part of how they try to trap you in the system. And then, you know, look for food that's outside of public health recommendations. I mean, I always say, but, you know, boycott public health, boycott mainstream media.
And if you can't get your kids out of government schools, those are some just tangible things. Actual things that you can do yourself that don't even require voting or external systems